Translator’s Note: Written by Hozumi Kaneko for bmr (Black Music Review) in a March 2001 magazine issue number 271. Originally written in Japanese; translated into English for publication. All rights reserved.

Now set to release their debut album as the first artist on Darkchild Records, the label established by Rodney Jerkins, now one of the very top top producers, is So Plush. The members are Rhonda Russell, TJ Lottie, Raquel Campbell, and Donielle Carter, four beautiful 19-year-olds. The album is filled with Rodney’s soul, and its success seems half-guaranteed already. First, I asked about the group’s history.

Rhonda (hereafter Rh): “TJ, Raquel, and Donielle were together at Hamilton High School. And Donielle and I lived in the same neighborhood. That’s what led to us knowing each other.”

Raquel (hereafter Ra): “So that was when we were around 13 or 14.”

TJ: “We formed the group when we were in high school. Or rather, what happened was, Raquel’s mom suggested that maybe we should form a group together, so we formed the group, and we’ve been doing it together ever since.”

Ra: “About three years now.”

Before high school, what kind of relationship had they had with music?

Rh: “In my case, I had been singing for a long time. Since I was little, I sang in church choirs and things like the International Children’s Choir. Also, everyone in my family plays instruments, and there was always music playing in the house when I was a kid, so the first influence on me came from my family. So that’s where the starting point of my music career comes from. The artists who influenced me musically are mainly Mariah Carey, Stevie Wonder, and Whitney Houston. I like jazz too, all different kinds. And I also like Erykah Badu and Lauryn Hill.”

TJ: “I sang in church choirs too, and sang along while listening to the radio, but at first, as a job, I was thinking about being an actress and a model. My house too always had all kinds of music playing when I was little, so I’ve been influenced by all kinds of things I listened to back then. Then singing became fun too, and that’s how I came to join this group.

The people who influenced me were Mariah Carey, Whit... uh, Whitney Houston, Stevie Wonder, and who else was there...?” (The Raquel next to her prompts, “Lionel Richie, right?”) “That’s right, Lionel Richie! (laughs) I guess that’s about it. Ah, and I like Mary J. Blige too.”

Ra: “When I was a kid too, I sang in church choirs, but other than that I’d never sung in public or professionally. If anything, I was just singing along while listening to the radio or something. It was after I got into high school that I started seriously thinking I wanted to sing as a job.”

Donielle (hereafter Do): “I think when you’re a kid everyone strongly wants to be a superstar or become famous. The first thing I got interested in was dancing. I watched Diana Ross and did Talent Shows and sang ‘Stop! In the Name of Love,’ but back then I was only doing it as one of my hobbies. I wasn’t seriously thinking of building it into a career. At that time my value system was just this vague wish to become a star. After that I wanted to be an actress.

But right before graduation, when we all talked about standing together and doing a singing group, I decided to really devote myself to singing. I realized I had that talent, but also that I still needed training. But I enjoy singing.”

As artists who influenced them, Raquel and Donielle name Aaliyah, Whitney, Mary J., Stevie, and Michael Jackson. The point where Donielle differs from the others may be that she also names Sade and Anita Baker. By the way, they say all of them are currently listening a lot to the albums by R. Kelly and Tamia. Since they had been close to singing from long ago, sang themselves, and were influenced by the same artists, it was probably easy for them to form a group as well. While all that was going on, they met Rodney and got the chance to debut, but what did they sing at that time?

Rh (with the other three saying the same kind of thing at the same time): “In front of Rodney, each of us sang different songs individually, a cappella.”

TJ: “As a group, we sang Destiny’s Child. It was ‘No, No, No.’”

It was Desty’s Child. For girls their age, that was only natural. It would seem like it might become “aim for Destiny’s Child,” but I got the sense that one difference from Destiny’s Child was a greater approachability, a greater sense of familiarity. I thought the secret might be in the chorus work...

Rh: “I take it as a compliment when people say we sound like Destiny’s Child. But I think we can let people hear a sound that’s different from theirs. We worked with first-rate producers, and Rodney gives us something different from the others, a new sound, and the most important thing is that he’s able to really hear each member’s vocals. Like, what kind of sound Donielle has, what Raquel has, what TJ has, and then me too. As for the chorus work, Rashaan handled the vocal arrangements, so maybe his ability had a lot to do with it. Of course, we really worked hard too to make it something wonderful.

So I’m happy when people say that. He let us try the things we wanted to do and add ad-libs too, but in the end the vocal arrangement was decided by his judgment. We don’t understand the technical side of recording, but I think Rashaan and Rodney and the others beautifully shaped that side of it. Chorus and everything else too, but we put feeling first. Attitude.”

It seems the vocals owe a lot to LaShawn Daniels. Also, on songs beginning with “Yes,” the voices are altered quite a bit, so when I asked what they would do about that in live performances, they said they are currently developing ways to handle it with a cappella and effective singing methods. As for the division of singing roles, it seems Rhonda and Donielle handle the lead, while TJ and Raquel take care of the background, hooks, and bridges. Even outside of singing, they commented amicably that Rhonda is the mother, Donielle is dance, and Raquel is fashion, so there are role assignments. If that is the case, then their relationship with Rodney becomes another issue. Rodney has said that they are a “team,” so I asked about that, including the concept of the album.

Ra: “Rodney had the idea from the beginning that he wanted to make it a party album. After the album recording was finished, he asked for our opinions, like, ‘What do you think about this song?’ and ‘Which one do you like best?’ and ‘Which song do you think would be good for the first single?’”

TJ: “He had decided there would only be one or two ballads on the album. Since we’re new artists, he didn’t want to bore people with nothing but slow songs. So the album has lots of up- to mid-tempo songs on it.”

Do: “And about the ‘team’ thing. Including Rodney and everybody else, it felt like family, and we were always able to relax in the studio. We were able to do it in a good atmosphere. Even during recording, everybody sincerely listened to our requests and opinions.”

It seems Keith Sweat and Da Brat appearing as guests was also Rodney’s idea, but the members are very happy they were able to work with them, and TJ names the Da Brat song as her favorite song. They also seem to like hip-hop very much, things like JAY-Z, DMX, and Redman. As for the trendy South too:

Rh: “I love it.”

TJ: “I get totally into it. In the club my body just starts moving on its own... I just can’t keep standing still.”

Rh: “My parents are in the South, and I was there even back when it still wasn’t accepted on the West Coast. It’s body-shaking type music. When you hear it in the club, your body just moves on its own.”

Do: “I think it’s annoying... really.” (Everyone bursts out laughing.) “I’m kidding, I love it too. I love Cash Money.”

So they seem like the type who can accept just about anything. Since from this debut work they are already actively writing lyrics themselves, it may be getting ahead of things, but when I asked about their ideas for a second album, Do said, “Anyway, we want to write more songs ourselves,” and Ra answered, “On the 2nd album I want it to be a little more mature, and I want to include ballads too. I like slow songs, so I’d be happy if we could put in five or six ballads.” That answer alone makes them seem quite dependable. They also say they want to work with producers like Timbaland and Shakespeare, and though I had thought they were only passively receiving things from Rodney, it seems likely that as they gain experience from here on, they will grow a great deal as artists too. They also say they have an interest in Japan, so I would definitely like them to come to Japan.

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On the day of Lupe’s interview, Egyptian president Mubarak announced his resignation. It was a coincidence, but it felt as if it symbolized something.

After a dark period in which he lost someone important and made it through various problems, the thinking wolf Lupe Fiasco finally released his third album, Lasers. Here he speaks about the feelings he put into the new work, the truth and deeper layers behind the talked-about single “Words I Never Said,” and where his mind is now.

We Are Lasers

When The Cool was released, Lupe shocked fans and made them uneasy by saying, “I’ll retire after the next third album, LUpE.N.D.” But brushing away that anxiety, the new album Lasers has finally seen the light of day after about three and a half years. Even though Lupe himself announced on Twitter that the album was complete, the record company still would not move toward releasing it, and it seems Lupe’s fans ended up playing a role in making the release happen.

“It took nearly four years because the record company kept trying to make me do specific songs. If I said, ‘I want to do this song,’ the label would say, ‘We don’t like that song,’ and then when I actually recorded the kind of song they wanted me to do, they’d say, ‘Actually we don’t like that song either. So let’s try this one.’ While that kept repeating, we got stuck in a negative spiral. I got tired of that situation and told them, ‘If you don’t even know what you want, I’m just gonna chill for a while.’ But even during that time, the fans were saying, ‘We want to hear Lupe’s album! We want to hear Lupe’s new music, no matter what kind of sound it is!’ They brought in a petition signed by more than 30,000 people demanding that the release date be set. Even then they couldn’t get a proper response from the label, so this time thousands of kids gathered and started protesting, and as that escalated, they finally announced the release date of March 8. To have fans that dedicated, I really felt that was dope.”

During the interview Lupe kept repeating the word “manifesto.” In that word, you realize, is the true meaning he wanted to put into Lasers.

“Before making the music, before shaping the concept for the album, I tried writing out fourteen things I wanted to happen in the world. I want a meaningful education system. I want politicians to tell the truth. I want wars at home and abroad to end. It’s based on the Black Panther Party manifesto, but I made that first, and only after that did I start on the music. I made clear what I wanted to achieve before I went into the studio.”

The album artwork insists on the title Lasers by scribbling a red “A,” one that recalls the Sex Pistols’ “Anarchy in the U.K.,” over the “O” in “Losers,” adding an anti-social nuance. What feeling did he put into this title?

“I’ve also got a punk band called Japanese Cartoon, and at first we were talking about using the idea of a ‘manifesto’ for that band. It fit a punk band. But in the end, I decided to do the manifesto as Lupe Fiasco on Lasers. So this idea came out of the world of punk rock. And then there’s the meaning of changing something negative into something positive. We’re not losers, we’re lasers. Maybe we started out as losers, but we changed into lasers. Change happens when you reexamine yourself. You don’t have to change the whole world. Just changing your point of view a little can make it into something completely different. On this album, I wanted to convey the positive power that comes out of music.”

“Words I Never Said”

The second single from Lasers, “Words I Never Said,” is a masterpiece that sinks in little by little to a startling degree, and its presence stands out especially strongly on the album. The dramatic sound produced by Alex da Kid, and Skylar Grey’s chorus ringing out like a siren, bring out Lupe’s rhymes even more. What made him decide to pour out his thoughts on this song?

“I was worn out by the current state of things. By what’s happening in the world. ‘American Terrorist’ on Food & Liquor says similar things and has a similar structure, but that one was more metaphorical and more subtle. This song, though, hits straight on, with force, and that’s the point. Sometimes the most controversial thing is to speak the truth. And the truth is powerful enough on its own. This song isn’t aiming for some lyric competition or best-MC battle. The concept of words itself becomes communication. That’s why I needed to use simple words.”

One line in this song that has an especially strong impact is “If you don’t become an actor, you’ll never be a factor,” and I asked Lupe to explain the intention behind it in his own words.

“If you can’t turn your ideas into words, everything stops there. And if you don’t put those words into action, they mean nothing. They mean nothing unless there’s physical action backing them up. If you question a politician about something, they’ll probably just talk back. But if you actually go to their office and physically protest them face to face, then they’ll be forced to act, right?”

And for not only 2Pac fans but also listeners who like so-called conscious rap, the line that probably hurts the ear quite a bit is, “Just listening to Pac ain’t gone make it stop.”

“2Pac is one of my favorite rappers. He stood up to fight problems outside music, and that had a huge effect on his listeners. But no matter how much we as listeners were motivated by Pac, if we just listen to his songs and never take any action ourselves, then it means nothing. Same with if you just listen to Lupe Fiasco, Common, dead prez, Immortal Technique, and do nothing. It connects back to ‘If you don’t become an actor, you’ll never be a factor,’ but if you don’t act, it means nothing.”

In the 2008 presidential election, America’s first Black president was born, and history was dramatically rewritten. But Lupe directly criticizes Obama with the line, “Gaza Strip was gettin bombed but Obama didn’t say shit / That’s why I didn’t vote for him, next one either.”

“I don’t vote in presidential elections. I didn’t vote before Obama came along, and I probably won’t vote in the future either. In Obama’s case, the issue was that when the Gaza Strip was being bombed, he said nothing. About Egypt this time, he said change was necessary, but back then, fighter planes were literally bombing the people of Gaza, and he didn’t say a word, not even a word of sympathy, not even that this tragedy should be stopped immediately. For me that was an extremely important moment. I thought maybe something different could be expected from one of the three major presidential candidates. But America is still allied with a country that continues to carry out massacres. I can’t understand that. If it were army against army, maybe that would still be one thing, but residential areas where civilians live are being bombed and people are being killed. So when people ask me, ‘Why don’t you vote?’ I want to say, ‘That’s why.’ There are tons of other reasons too. It’s not that I’m against Obama himself. He’s a smart person, and I hope he acts with conscience. But at the same time, I don’t trust the system, and I can’t agree with it at all.”

Following that anti-Obama phrase, the song then turns the point toward Lupe himself: “I’m a part of the problem, my problem is I’m peaceful.” In my mind it links directly to the line from the intro of The Cool, spoken by the woman: “the problem is we think it’s cool too.” There, you can see the real Lupe, criticizing social conditions while also unable to fully become a bystander.

“People say that people who don’t vote are part of the problem. My answer to that is, I don’t vote, but I do pay taxes. You might vote once every four years, but I pay taxes every day. Probably more than the guy next door. Hip-hop artists make money, you know, and I’m not saying that to brag. If I buy a fire truck, for example, I’m going to pay thousands of dollars in taxes. That gets broken up and paid out in all kinds of directions. With just a small part of the taxes I pay in a year, the government can buy one bomb. If a bomb bought with my taxes bombs a school or a wedding, then I have the right to speak. More right than the people who vote, probably. Because I’m the one literally paying for that bomb. Whether you sing songs onstage, work at McDonald’s, or work in a clothing store, you pay taxes to the government, and part of those taxes goes to war. So I have the right to express my opinion, and the duty too. If I went to Egypt and picked up a tear gas canister that said ‘Made in USA,’ then some of those might have been paid for with my taxes.”

“All Black Everything”

What stands out on “All Black Everything” is the powerful message, the drums supporting it, and the unsettling combination of proper nouns that keeps flying into your ears one after another: the KKK, MLK, the Quran, Bush, Somalia, Eminem. Here too, Lupe’s political style is sharp.

“I’m talking about what kind of changes history might have seen up to today if Black people in America had not been brought in as slaves, but had instead been hired and paid wages. You can keep that ‘what if’ going forever. Because this is fantasy. If there had been no slavery, then there would have been no crack epidemic, and no ghettos either. I’m not saying drugs would never have existed at all, but it wouldn’t have become a problem so racially skewed to this extent. Then so many Black kids wouldn’t have gone to prison like this. And then there’d be no rapping about crack, because crack itself wouldn’t be there. If you keep tracing it back like that, you arrive at the assumption, ‘What if there had been no slavery?’ Because all the problems rooted in African American life come from slavery. There wouldn’t have been segregation or racism either. So there’s nothing fancy about it at all, I’m just talking about what would happen if only one tiny part of history had been different.”

If Lupe’s passionate fans were to get serious, maybe America really could gain a more decent future than it has now. Listening to the new album Lasers, learning the “Lasers Manifesto” that forms the basis of this music, and hearing this “dreamer with his eyes on reality” called Lupe Fiasco, that sort of vision slowly came into view for me. ◎

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Translator’s Note: Written by Atsuko “Akko” Matsuda for bmr (Black Music Review) in a February 2001 magazine issue number 270. Originally written in Japanese; translated into English for publication. All rights reserved.

Wearing orange pants and a biker-style T-shirt, Eve appeared at the interview venue. She was even prettier than I’d imagined, and both the photographer and I just stood there with our mouths open, staring. I’d read in a magazine interview that she likes Kiss Mints, so I immediately held out some Japanese gum, and she started explaining to the stylist and makeup artist how delicious Japanese gum is.

— Your first album Let There Be... seems to have been supported especially by women, right?
“Yes. I think that’s a good thing. I see myself as a strong woman, and there are a lot of strong women out there, and those women felt like they could support me. I hope that in the near future we can all do something together. I think an era has come where women stand up, take action, and can stay strong.”

— The single “Love Is Blind” (a song about women being abused by boyfriends or husbands) seems to have drawn an especially big response, right?
“I got a lot of positive feedback. A lot of people are happy that I made that song. Because a lot of women have had the same experience as that song. People would come up to me with tears in their eyes and say things like, ‘My big sister went through that,’ or ‘I’ve seen my mom get beaten,’ and… that song made me realize how much power words can have. And I think it was good because people understood that I’m not just doing music.”

— Looking back now on your first album, how do you rate it yourself?
“I really love it. But back then, I wasn’t the same as I am now.”

— After your first album blew up, did your life change? What was good about becoming a star, and what was bad?
“The good thing is getting lots of clothes from famous designers (laughs). And going to great restaurants… and traveling… I love Japan. I want to go again. The bad thing is not having privacy. I can’t go anywhere alone, and I can’t really go to clubs much.”

— So about the second album, why did you choose the title Scorpion?

“Q-Tip told me Scorpion would be good. So I kept thinking about it, and the word ‘Scorpion’ has a strong ring to it, and I felt like it represents me, so I decided to make it the album title.”

— What is a typical Scorpio girl like?
“Passionate, loyal to friends and the people she likes, and if you make her mad she’ll sting…… that’s totally me. And I’m really moody, too.”

— Which signs do Scorpios get along with?
“Sagittarius, Libra, and Scorpio. My boyfriend (producer Stevie J) is a Scorpio too, and both of us are moody so it’s tough. But Scorpios usually get along with most people. The only one that’s no good is a Taurus guy.”

— And there must have been a lot of pressure, like the sophomore jinx (the idea that the second album won’t sell). How did you get past that?
“At first I felt a lot of pressure. When I started making the second album, all kinds of people were telling me I can’t do this, I can’t say that, and I couldn’t focus…… so I told everyone, ‘Just leave me alone. Let me make what comes out of my heart.’ Then I was able to relax. I just want to make the music I think is good, and if people like it, that’s enough, and if they don’t…… that’s disgraceful, but it can’t be helped. I can’t predict what will happen. I do pray to God, though.”

— What’s different from the first album? You said before that the first one was like a diary.
“The second one is like a diary too, but I think I became more of an adult. I grew a lot over this past year, and I learned a lot. So I think I grew lyrically, and I think I grew mentally too.”

— Specifically, how do you think you grew mentally?
“I’ve gotten through a lot of stressful situations, so I think those experiences made me grow mentally. I lost my best friend because of jealousy on the business side, and this past year had a lot of crazy situations. I learned a lot about myself, and about the people around me.”

Can you explain the lyrics of a song you especially like on the second album?
“There’s a song called ‘Living Life So Hard,’ and Teena Marie sings the hook, and it’s a song like ‘Heaven Only Knows’ from the first album. It talks about what I went through this year, what I want to accomplish, and my relationship with God. It’s the most personal song on the second album.”

— How did you end up collaborating with Teena Marie this time?
“In ‘99 she called me and asked, ‘I want you to be on my album.’ But that didn’t happen. So when I was making ‘Living Life So Hard,’ I thought she’d be perfect, and when I called, she said OK.”

— Without sticking only to rap, do you want to do more singing too?
“I tried experimenting a little, using my voice. And I wanted to see what kind of feedback would come back. But I’m not going to do R&B. That’s not me.”

— I hear Southern female MCs like Trina and Da Brat are guesting too. Were you inspired by them?
“I just wanted to do a girls’ anthem. I picked Trina and Da Brat because we’re all from different regions and we have different rhyme styles. We’re all dope, and I thought if the three of us did it, it could get hot, so I tried it.”

— What do you think is the appeal of Southern female MCs?
“I don’t like all Southern female MCs, but I think their style is good.”

— I hear OutKast’s André is guesting. What’s appealing about him?
“He was supposed to be on it, but this time our schedules didn’t match and it fell through. But Swizz (Beatz) talked with him, so maybe we’ll work together in the future.”

— How did you feel about participating in Bob Marley’s tribute album Chant Down Babylon? Do you like reggae?
“It was dope. They (note: the people organizing it, like Stephen Marley and them) called me and said, ‘Are you down?,’ so I said OK right away. I love reggae. I listen to nothing but reggae normally. I like roots stuff too, but I like dancehall. Lady Saw, Beenie Man, Bounty Killer, Spragga Benz……”

— You met Stephen Marley, who’s on your second album, through that project, right?
“I met him when I went to Jamaica. And then I asked him to be on my album.”

— Do you have input on choosing producers?
“Yeah. I chose the producers I like.”

— This is your first time in about three years working with Dr. Dre again (note: Eve originally had a contract with Aftermath, but after releasing only one song she moved to Ruff Ryders). How was it?
“It was dope. Both of us were excited that we could work together again.”

— What kind of beats do you think suit you?
“I don’t like super hard beats. I like musical beats.”

— Beats like ‘What Ya Want,’ for example?
“Yeah.”

— Beats keep evolving more and more, and rap is changing more and more too, right?
“Of course.”

— What do you do to be inventive with your flow and things like that?
“I write rhymes to match the beat. I almost never write without listening to the beat. Because I want to match the beat at the parts where it breaks down, and the parts where it bounces.”

— Who do you think is a really good MC right now?
“No one in particular. Tupac is always my number one favorite. But I listen to JAY-Z, and I like Jadakiss (of The LOX) too.”

— Among female MCs?
“Only Lauryn Hill.”

— Since you all are active, I thought there would be more female MCs, but the number doesn’t really increase, does it?
“Being a female MC is hard. If you’re hard and like a man, men won’t like you…… You have to really know where you fit. With male MCs, there are lots of guys who are similar and it’s fine, but with female MCs, you can’t do that, you have to be original.”

— As a female MC, what do you think about the current hip-hop scene?
“I think hip-hop overall has gotten boring. That’s my honest opinion. As an MC, I only do what I understand myself, and I’m not going to try to copy what’s popular right now. Hip-hop now is simple like ABC, way too easy. The lyrics and the beats… it’s not hip-hop.”

— I think materialism will end soon and a new wave will come again, but what do you think?
“Personally, I’ve never thought to rap about that kind of thing. I like nice clothes and diamonds so I wear them, and I’ll say it (in lyrics), but I don’t mean those things. JAY-Z and Lil’ Kim, people expect them to rap about that kind of thing, so I think that’s fine, but… I can’t enjoy that kind of rap the way I used to. Maybe people want rap that talks about reality more than rap that talks about fantasy.”

— By the way, how was working with your boyfriend Stevie J? Was it easier than working with other producers? Or was it harder because of that?
“It was easy. Both of us knew what we had to do in the studio, and we did it as business. There was kissing, though (laughs). Meeting in the studio and helping each other made our distance get closer, I think.”

— Do you usually talk about music with him too?
“Of course. We talk about everything.”

— It looks like you two have been together for over a year, but what’s the secret to keeping a relationship going?
“We’ve been together for a year and seven months. But you have to trust each other. Communicate, and respect each other. That’s the biggest secret. And being honest. If you don’t borrow a hand, the relationship will never go well. We really talk a lot, and we communicate a lot. And we’re honest with each other, and we respect each other’s opinions. For me, being with him is the first relationship in the real sense, so I had to learn a lot.”

— What do you think of the new presidential candidates, Bush and Gore? Can we leave America to those two?
“Oh my God! The president still isn’t decided! (laughs) Well, I like Gore more. I think Bush isn’t good for the American people. A lot of Americans are Democrats, you know. We need a president for us. But right now, Gore is at a disadvantage.”

The way she talked, and the way she seemed to enjoy talking about horoscopes, made her seem like a totally normal girl, but mentally she gave the impression of being quite adult. It made me look forward even more to the second album arriving.

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